From the left, the participants in the report Ana María Ibañez, Rocío Saiz, Paloma Rey, Lucas Jiménez and Óscar Díaz.MASSIMILIANO MINOCRI
In the work prior to this report, a reader contacted this newspaper to report that her recently deceased grandmother had a 92-year-old friend who was dating a man, but did not live with him because “she was waiting to see How was he doing?” And so the two had been 10 years. The state of women, deteriorated after passing the covid, has prevented her from telling that story of love and life expectancy that has an essential ingredient that the company 40dB captures in its survey for EL PAÍS and the Ser chain: women, especially when they are older, they are less willing to live together as a couple and to make sacrifices for love.
Paloma Rey (69 years old, divorced): Because you have learned. At an age, when you have already had a couple experience, and now you know independence and freedom, it is difficult to go back. You can have your dalliances, your rolls, but that’s it. There are women who do not want to be in the service of anyone again.
Paloma has been separated for 13 years, has two children and has not considered living with a person again. “I am a vitalist, I have many friends, and I don’t need to share my life 100% with anyone. What can arise? I don’t believe it, nor do I believe in the love that they sell us. In my generation, coexistence has often been the death of relationships.
Rocío Saiz (31 years old, single): I will say more. The Divorce Law in this country has saved many lives.
Rocío and Paloma are accompanied on the ship of the old newspapers of EL PAÍS by Lucas Jiménez, Ana María Ibáñez del Castillo and Óscar Díaz Perales. Different age brackets that embed them in generations that go from Lucas’s Z to Paloma’s baby boom, different sentimental circumstances, different origins. Does it determine, by the way, social class? Would they date someone much richer, or much poorer?
Óscar Díaz (42 years old, divorced): A priori, yes. A priori. But could it be a kept, for example? Because if it were the other way around and I am a millionaire, I would say to my partner: If you want to work, work, but…
Ana María Ibáñez (38 years old, with a partner): That is the conflict. If not, it is impossible to accompany someone who has much more money in life. Restaurants, travel, vacations, time. If there is a big economic difference, you have to assume that: either you pay the imbalance, or you allow them to pay you.
Lucas Jiménez (20 years old, with a partner): It’s interesting. If you are a rich person and you are in love, you may suspect that the other person is with you out of interest. If you are the other person, and you are in love, you have to live with the idea that people, or your own partner, think that maybe your love is not entirely sincere. Very delicate. And constant: everywhere and at all times there are romances like this, it would only be missing that we had to fall in love with equals.
One of the results of the survey is striking. The younger, the more likely to consider anything as infidelity.
Lucas: Because when you’re young your idea of love is more superficial, more focused on physical things. When a mature person begins to realize what infidelity really is, and jealousy dissipates a little more and you focus on important things. Anyway: age is not more important than when you are that age. That is why I think that in my generation less things are considered infidelity than in the previous one [los millennials].
Ana María: I see in my environment relationships that start very young and in which control is absolute, from cell phones to the clothes they have to wear.
Lucas: If they look at my cell phone behind me, I stop seeing that person with the same eyes.
Has anyone seen the mobile or sees your partner’s mobile? Nobody approves and nobody has done it, except for Rocío.
Rocío: It’s a sociological question: if the parents are more and more away from home, the child has less and less nest. When you don’t trust, you look for a partner to fill gaps. And you create bonds that are toxic. I have had an unstructured childhood and I attribute these insecurities of mine to environmental factors.
Lucas Jiménez, architecture student. MASSIMILIANO MINOCRI
Óscar: What happened when you saw your girlfriend’s cell phone?
Rocío: It was once. I had to watch it because it was lying to me and it was making me feel crazy. Well look: that’s how I justify having taken it. He was cheating on me, he was lying to me and I wasn’t crazy.
Óscar: And if I wasn’t cheating on you, you’d feel like shit and say: “If I don’t trust you, is the relationship worth it?”
Rocío: That’s why I think no relationship survives looking at the other’s cell phone.
Let’s talk about sex. When it’s over, specifically.
Rocío: Let’s talk about desire and sexcentrism, better. In lesbians there is a more sex-affective relationship than sex-centric. In lesbians I see as an eager attachment to create home and family. A need to create a community for having been invisible for so long. Suddenly they make you visible and you feel very alone. What you want is to seek support. The gay does not stop being a man with privileges when he is born; the woman is not born with those privileges, and she is a lesbian, and above all made invisible.
And if the sex ends, the love ends?
Rocío: Is a relationship less powerful because you don’t have sex? No. Culturally we have been taught that the center of the couple is sex. What if we stop putting sex at the center, and put care? I don’t think there is a sexual need. I correct myself: it can be controlled.
Paloma: It depends on the age. If you’re young, and you don’t have sex…
Rocío: You can also not have sex and have a beautiful relationship based on love.
Lucas: Hmmm. They go hand in hand. If your partner stops sexually attracting you, are you in love?
Oscar: That’s right. You don’t have to lose sexual desire, what you can lose is sexual desire for your partner.
Paloma: So you don’t like it anymore, and what do you do with your partner if you don’t like it?
Rocío: But that can be an open relationship project. My project is with you, I’m in love with you and I want to fuck outside, and there are people who take it very well.
Anna Maria: Look. If both parties agree, they can do whatever they want with their relationship.
In the survey published today by EL PAÍS, it is concluded that three out of four Spaniards consider that children are the main reason for a couple to stay together. The second reason, love. The third, the acquired commitment. Is this normal?
Óscar: I separated seven years ago, my daughter was two at the time. We did it simply because we didn’t want to live together. But her mother and I are attentive to her, to her care and to giving her the necessary tools to understand the situation: that she has two parents who love her, like everyone else. Do what’s best for your kids, always: That also means you don’t want to raise them in a loveless home.
Paloma: Children intuit everything, they know everything.
Óscar: My daughter, without us arguing or anything, asked us: Give you a kiss, give you a hug. Because I noticed.
Ana María: When I was pregnant I was afraid. Fear of what would happen when he was born. Because he knew of couples that, when the child was born, all the love went to him and the couples neglected each other. But I am very much in love, and I feel that my love is reciprocated, and it has not affected us at all. Upside down.
Ana Maria Ibáñez, administrative, in the old newspaper of El País. MASSIMILIANO MINOCRI
Oscar: It’s a test. The proof, I would say.
Ana María: The girl has arrived and has slept in bed with us for six months. What can that affect? Well, but the one who had to get up every two hours to breastfeed was me. And nothing happens, we recover intimacy after six months.
Eight out of 10 Spaniards declare themselves monogamous. There are those who prefer an open, stable relationship with sporadic sexual relations outside. Or a polyamorous relationship.
Lucas: I have a monogamous relationship, my first serious relationship, I’ve been in it for eight months, but I wouldn’t close myself off to an open relationship. My girlfriend was in an open relationship before, so maybe there’s that possibility. There are many dynamics. The important thing is to know that you are the one that the other person has chosen, their partner, their boyfriend, those who take care of yourselves. That then I can have a meeting? Okay.
Rocío: All my feminist friends have open relationships. And none of them turn out well. And I’m throwing stones at my roof, because I’m a radical feminist, but they have open relationships and they neglect all of them, because they don’t focus on anything concrete. Where are the cares? Open or polyamorous relationships work if people have overworked self-esteem. So that jealousy, insecurities do not come out…
One of the interesting questions raised by the survey refers to the age difference: would you go out with a person 20 years older? And 20 years younger?
Ana María: My father had an age difference of more than 20 years with my mother. Being a daughter that obsessed me a lot. And when I started having relationships, I paid a lot of attention to that, I gave it a lot of importance. In what? In having such an old father, in people confusing him all the time with my grandfather. He turned around a lot. And if I have a child tomorrow, I don’t want that to happen to me, I don’t want to have him with someone so old. Then you fall in love and you see.
Lucas: When you grow up, the differences fade.
Paloma: And a 70-year-old woman doesn’t shock you more with a 45-year-old man? That is stigmatized. And if the woman is told: where is this ridiculous woman going? Why?
Rocío: At 22 years old, I liked people in their 40s. Because I thought: what smart people.
Paloma: The same thing happened to me. I have always liked older people.
Rocío: It’s the power. Power is sexy or not. I don’t know how that is stigmatized when it comes to older or powerful women with someone younger.
Óscar: But when it comes to your boss, your coach…
Rocío: It’s just that power likes it! Someone who tells you “put yourself there”, buff [risas].
The survey says that generation Z – to which Lucas belongs – has mostly found love thanks to the internet (not him: he met his partner at university). Those who did meet their partners online were Óscar and Ana María, both thanks to the Tinder application. “How old I am”, says the student: “From the old school”. “Well, Tinder is very interesting”, jokes Óscar: “Everyone likes music and movies, and they are friends with their friends. It’s full of very original and weird people.”
Paloma, who began the conversation by saying that she will no longer live with anyone, says that her social life — her dates, her plans, her dinners — refer exclusively to her surroundings. “I don’t have that need to meet new people, there are friends, there are friends, I have many people around me and for many years. I stay with them.” “Look”, resolves Rocío: “among lesbians we tell each other that there is always a point where we become sisters or roommates. I want to die in a lesbian hospital with all my friends and playing cards”. Óscar doesn’t want the debate to end, which is approaching two hours. “You, if you see the partner of a friend of yours cheating on you, do you tell them?” he asks. A candle is mounted. Everyone suddenly agrees: “Friends are sacred. The horns with friends are horns multiplied by a thousand”, says Lucas. “You lose your partner, and you lose the friend. It’s horrible, ”says Ana María.
Exclusive content for subscribers
read without limits
#longer #love #sell